Or, hear me out, they could have just made iframes based on roll speed like every other souls like. Thank god Miyazaki fixed this trash the enemies in this game are too slow and boring to justify complicating this it’s artificial numbers difficulty at its finest

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For anyone whining: AGL is described AS:"Boots ease of evasion and other actions". What else could that mean??? This combined with the noticably short starting i-frames makes it absolutely clear what the stat does. Anyone who doubts this is Just an idiot

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I wish backsteps had iframes in DS3 and ER

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ADP is annoying at the beggining, but I don't see it as a hassle because in DS2 you gain levels way faster. Kill the Last Giant or Pursuer and you will have enough souls to insta-boost ADP into your desired iframes. I think this would be perfectly acceptable if the game at least told you that this stat governed iframes

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For the most part this is just a side effect of getting your spell slots and casting speed up via Attunement, it is not a concern for casters, or even decently levelled quality builds.

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Fextralife has a calculator for Agility (AGL), it is on the Stat Calculators page:

https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Stat+Calculators

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This is the page to come to if you want to see people make excuses for their suffering. Omg what a naughty game it has AGL and more than one enemy at a time, oh woe is me, that horrid "b team"

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Because the game doesn’t tell you what the stat does, it’s existence is inexcusable.

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The fact so much of the Dark Souls II hivemind so desperately defends this, and viciously and childishly insults those who rightly criticise it, only serves to confirm what shitty ideas Agility and the Adaptability stat are. Dark Souls II had some decent ideas and a LOT of bad ones, with ADP in a horrid class of its own as a shining pinnacle of the latter, which is why it will never escape its rep as the inbred redheaded stepchild of the DS series.

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I just killed the Old Smelter Demon after 7 hours of trying, because no matter how well timed I was some of his attacks have a long duration, I had 3 Adaptability... And only after watching a humor YouTube video I saw the dude explain what ADP is used for...

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Me 30 hours into the game totally not discovering this only now..

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It seems that they want you to level ADP at least a little bit. That's why the jump from 85 to 86 agility has the most drastic effect on i-frames. I think ADP as a concept would've been fine if you started with the 8 i-frames on your roll you get at 86 agility and the i-frames capped at only 15 instead of the ludicrous 16. You can severly mistime a dodge with 116 agility and be completely fine while you can perfectly time your dodge at 85 agility and die instantly.

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Last stat I touched beside INT and FTH, yet the game was fairly easy if I ignore my 40+ deaths to Fume Knight, I just Havel shield blocked and greatsword bonked the entire game

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I really don't hate adaptability and agility in this game. I like how there's some roleplaying involved and you have to, yknow, actually train to get better at dodging attacks. The same way you have to train (well, level up stats) to get better at swinging weapons. The fact it's separate from roll weight means you can still dodge pretty decently even with bulky armor, though you'll probably be roll dodging a lot less.

It also means if you don't want to focus on dodging much at all, you don't have to and can put the points elsewhere. Mages get a bit of agility from ATN, to help lessen their need of ADP. But you could also just be a Havel's Greatshield enjoyer and not dodge anything. It gives flexibility for your playstyle and makes roll weight be way less essential than in DS1. It also requires only a dozen points or so to make rolls more than good enough, People are just spoiled by DS1 rolls requiring zero investment to be a flawless master at rolling into a sword but magically not taking damage.

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This is the very reason DS2 is the worst of the franchise.

You get rid of this absolutely abysmal designed stat and all of a sudden this game is a masterpiece. (well... get rid of the 50% hp loss of death, which is also a terrible design for a a souls game...)

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Just strafe carefully and you'll avoid the attack entirely

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Dear F*ing god. No wonder I was getting clowned on. I only had 5 iframes.

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curious how this affects the use speed of consumables that aren't life gems and estus. I'm thinking mostly of throwing knives and bombs

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DS2 basically gives you two types of rolls.
Vitality and equip burden determines how fast and long your character can dodge.
Adaptability and Agility determines how many videogame seconds of videogame invinsibility your character gets when they dodge, meaning with enough points you can dodge into an enemies blade hitbox and not get hurt, for some reason.

People complain that not having this automatically is unrealistic.

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It's fun to come back and read the comments from all the whiny babies who sucked.

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You need 99 ATN and 63 ADP for max Agility 116. Games goes into easy mode regardless of NG+ cycle. You can essentially cheese infinite cycles using fast hitting poison weapons like rapiers or daggers. Eventually you'll receive enough souls on NG cycles to make a proper build with max iFrames.

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o

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For those that like round numbers: at 99 ATN and 45 ADP you get exactly 114 AGL and 0.5s of iframes on your roll.

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I really feel two things could have been done to make AGL less poorly percieved : better match the roll animation to the ammount of i-frames you get and make the base i-frames a little better. Because conceptually I don't feel it's such a terrible idea, upgrading your overall nimbleness makes for great RP material, but the game should probably make roll a bit more reliable without dumping points into it, and giving you that feel of power once you invested in it (just like most stats in the end). Just my two cents.

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Poll: what AGL level do you consider to be the point of diminishing returns, such that going higher isn't worth it? 100 (max estus speed, 4s of roll iframes)? 105 (4.33s roll iframes)? Higher? I'm mostly wondering how noticable the iframe improvements are after 4s...

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It'd be cool if the dodge animation changed at higher agility levels. Like at 114 agility you get 15 iframes which is the same as the dark wood grain ring in DS1 so it'd be cool the get the awesome backflip animations that ring gave you.

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What about 120 AGL, what amount of frames does that have, I only see numbers calculated up to 116

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What do you mean I'm not invincible throughout the whole roll animation? You mean I can get roll caught? I'm gonna blame the hitboxes then!

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Misunderstood a steam guide and thought AGL softcapped at 99, that explains why a lot of late game stuff got frustrating

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Guys you all are wrong, they just listened to the game jounalists and put a difficulty slider on the game, that's what this is

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I see people were arguing already. Time to fuel the flame. These games are not meant for those earlier (or later) iframe counts. I don't get why this was integrated into leveling. Did it just for the sake of it I dare say. Discourages rolling for those unaware. I prefer locked iframes, at least when there aren't visual cues for it (unintuitive otherwise). Agility either trivializes timing or destroys the mobile playstyle with the risk. I think it's too integral to the ability to perform when compared to other stats, an easy decision when levelling up, should've been polished out. Without that type of polishing you get things like "Fashion Souls" too. Minor things that could've been improved.

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The game gives you an insane amount of souls, so I ended up actually somewhat enjoying this stat - it's at least another useful way to spend your levels and adds some early game choice for non-shield players, but I agree it could start a little higher, I ended up rushing Dragonrider first just to put like 6 points into it lmao

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I'd like to know how's it possible for someone to dodge my second swing of ultra and or any that has a chance to have a 2hit combo cause I c players doging it like it's nothing

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This year's return to Drangleic has been great, looking forward to Elden Ring. Event's over, both my character and the game's activity aren't, yet. 106 AGL and rising, because every iframe might be the one to make you not dead. Leveled ADP and ATT both.

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Wait so does 30fps doubles iframes duration?

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Agility aka artificial difficulty dump stat you have to level up otherwise game is unplayable. lol. what a retarded half-assed design attempt at a good action rpg mechanic. what a pathetic joke of a game

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Certified easy mode moment

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adp is attunment for phisical builds now you also have a stat that is required for your build exept less cripling than attunement if you dont level it. becouse you can doge by spacing rather than rolling trough attacks.

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nobody would have any problem with this stat if base i-frames were 11 and it took more levels to get high frames

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The i-frame table is for 30fps, by the way. Double those values for 60.

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At least this game has a difficulty slider lmao

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welcome to the war zone, brother! Grab your sunny d and be careful not to go too deep. May the sun shine your way!

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This is why this game is garbage also the boss fights are terrible and easy.

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Agility increases iFrames drastically, as shown in these videos.
Excuse me what videos or is something in my browser blocking them?

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So am I the only one that thinks those equations can’t be right? They have faulty bounding conditions.

“When ATN + (3 * ADP) is less than or equal to 120: ((ATN + (3 * ADP)) / 4) + 80”

This is “supposed” to be used for agility values under 110, but that equation clearly goes to 120. If (x) is equal or less than 120, you take ((x)/4)+ 80, which gives you… 120 when x = 120. Doesn’t matter how you got that 120, could be 30/30 ATN/ADP, could be 15/35, whatever, as long as they hit 120 or less after you triple adp. But that means you have an agi over 110, so you use the other equation, but the other equation tells you to have a ATN+3*ADP of over 120, which you don’t. Something is either wrong or explained poorly.

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Should you stop leveling agility (adp) at a certain point or should you just level it all the way until you have the max i frames?

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i have 40 adp = 110 Agility a delight to play

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So what is max agility, and how far does agility go until it stops adding bonus. I mean completely not just when it starts giving miniscule gains.

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Whats the ideal amount i should have per area? new to ds2, ds3 was my first

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just started a new game after a year or two of staying away, running a Greatsword build w/ no shield, so i was wondering what would be a good level of ADP to have without dumping way too much into it?

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After reading all these comments... I'm getting the impression that this one stat might be responsible for the majority of the divide - playstyles, opinions, toxicity, you name it - in the player base regarding this game.

If my observation is correct, all I have to say is... why argue about this? If you don't like it, don't play the game, and don't drag others down; if you do like it, then play and have all the fun you like, and don't let others drag you down.

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It's good that they decided to take risks with stuff like this, sad it was just so... bad. The game itself is a good game, even if the learning curve is worse. The DLC's are some of the best in the series, only beaten by the Artorias DLC in my opinion. Yeah, it doesn't have automatically ds3 level rolls, but you don't need much ADP to remedy that. It's been a constant argument in the community about whether this game is good or not, and I say... Yeah, but not as good as 1 or 3. The bosses in this game are pretty good, and Creighton's story holds a special place in my heart. The only problem is the "Get Good" community. Toxic players with no respect for people who want to enjoy the game, or ARE actively trying to get good. I don't understand why it's more prevalent in ds2, but... just a warning for any new players, don't let these shitty people make you quit, just block 'em and ignore 'em. There's my two cents on this game, I suppose.

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Adaptability is a stupid stat just get used to the slow dodging and slow healing and be untouchable with low agility so you can put more points into strength or int or faith

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why attunement? genuine question, i don't get what it has to do with speed.

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>be me
>500+ hours on xbox, ~273 in PC
>long time without playing
>"hmmm what was agility?"
>search
>see war
I played nicely without it, even with shieldless builds... why? why do y'all care so much about it? too much dks/dks3 OP rolling? no seriously, I wanna know the deal with the iframes, you can always learn when to roll, no?

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Tbh ds3 is the best in the serious

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Using the formula above, if you just want agility (and don't care about the other effects of Attunement or Adaptability), just dump points into Attunement (formula only uses 75% of Adaptability).

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Bottom line,
What stats = max iframes.

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this whole page is full of cry babies. there is nothing wrong with the agility stat. this is going to sound cliche but get good.

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since the i-frame data given here is in 30fps, does that mean the i-frame count jumps by 2 at every breakpoint listed here in 60fps? or are there intermediaries where you get i-frames in single frame increments?

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DS2 is BS when it comes to agility affecting healing, this is why it's the crappiest game in the Dark Souls series, healing should be almost instant not wait however amount of seconds based on your ADP, utterly BS. DS3 and DS1 never had problems with healing and using items, hell you could upgrade your health and endurance/agility and you can kick butt, here it's upgrade your ADP and then hopefully you can roll right or parry right and you have to upgrade your ADP to level kajillion to be able to heal properly and not be a sitting duck during a fight while you back away. Hell your roll also sucks cause your ADP is too low and you get caught for no reason. DS2 is so crappy, thank god From Soft put Hidetaka Miyazaki back in the master seat. Please never have the B team and Naotoshi Zin make another game again.

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Just finished the game with a Great-shield tank and zero stat investment in adaptability. Difficulty wise, game felt the same as when I was playing my agile max-iframes build but still, playing a true tank was tricky at first as I had to rewire my brain to rely heavily on proper positioning instead of reaction rolling. Especially after spending 1200 hours in DS3 witch is the most rolly game in the series.

I like how DS2 took a core survival mechanic of DS1(rolling) and made it a roleplay/build choice.

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ADP is a good stat and DS2 is a great game that took big chances. I'm not sure why everyone thinks every character should have the same roll, PvP is better in DS2 than 1 and 2 because of this stat. It reduces 1 shots at metalevel(still possible; just nowhere near as likely) and it punishes one shot builds by forcing them to trade dodge reliability for the damage.

Soul Memory is a fantastic play field leveling mechanic, and makes twinking significantly harder to do effectively. Not to mention that the game has the greatest weapon and armor variety in the franchise. Is the game the best in the franchise? Depends on what you like most in DS games, but if you're here for PvP than the game delivers in big ways.

To anyone that complains that the stat is a crutch. Do you run meta rings? Do you run Meta builds? Are you an IronPineapple or Sunlight Blade build slave? Because there are way to many meta players running around complaining about a Crutch stat for me to take them seriously.

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I am very new to firsthand experiencing DS2 haters and people being incredibly toxic and illogical about some of the game mechanics. While subjectively, I think the ADP/Agility stat added both interest and depth that wasn't not in DS1 and was lost in DS3, I also think it is difficult to dispute that it helped balance out build styles. This, for me, increases the game's replayability and general playability. When people are whining about the stat they tend to neglect to acknowledge that ATN also increases agility at a reduced rate. The ATN stat that not only increases slots now, but also cast speed and number of casts. Attunement was also cleverly emphasized to be a stat to lean into as a pure pyromancer, as pyromancies have low total casts, slow cast speeds, and no innate cast speed on pyro catalysts, even moreso than other casters. Attunement also literally means tapping into people's energy which is a neat correlation as well.

Why is this relevant? Someone said in a rather ignorant comment below that agility and ADP forces people to build tanky or level adp. But that is a false dichotomy. And it is one experienced players can see through so clearly that I think they struggle to say a logical and respectful disproval of it. You can level attunement and achieve good agility and access 3 different styles of caster. Imagine a character that ignores ADP entirely and level vig/end/vit/strength. That character would have crap magic defense and poor rolling. But DS2 levels are very cheap and there being more stats makes levels less impactful (see how it balances out...see how a higher level meta is irrelevant...). So that character I just mentioned can invest into ADP to up their resistances, and levelling up int and faith just a bit will give you all the innate elemental defense you need. That character could go 40 vig/end/vit 50 str and still have approximately 45 levels to go before 150--a commonly cited soul level, which as mentioned before, does not directly correspond to the SL metas of DS or DS3 because 1) there are a different number of stats in each game, 2) levels cost significantly more in DS3 than DS1 or DS3, and 3) Absorption works differently in each game, and PERSONALLY I think Int/Faith rewarded players who didn't intend to spellcast much with good defenses for levelling them up AND strong pyromancies (and even stronger BKHs which was unnecessary but I am here for it). 45 levels that can be invested into magic defenses and enough attunement for two slots. You can specialize a bit however you want, and accentuate your build.

For those reasons, battle mages and paladins feel the best in DS2, as do magic ninjas and templar assassin style buids...specifically because of the inclusion of ADP, agility, and the adjustments made to weight load, stamina, endurance, vitality, and attunement. And since we're fanboying to shut up the detractors can we just repeat, that so many of these changes were bitterly tossed out in DS3 as if Fromsoft saw the backlash and said oh pls Miyazaki put it back to your way (the way that isn't new or innovative anymore...now it's conservative--not judging anything else but souls). Resilience was a completely useless stat in DS1, remember? Somehow it is more comfortable for players to see a stat everyone can ignore, than one that can influence status effects, and evasiveness... Where is the role-playing and adventure with that attitude ffs?! I don't understand why RPG fans would get upset at giving it a purpose. IF NOT for any other reason than to whine that something (in this case, i-frames?) was taken away or "nerfed". I think people just got a grudge because they had to look up how ADP works online to figure out the i-frame stuff. Even though it clearly says makes you more evasive in game.

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While I dont think the execution was Ideal agility did bring the greatest parity between caster builds and quality builds. Caster builds are always gimped in 1 and 3 because of the need for atunement while quality builds could ignore it. It is probably one reason why build diversity is the greatest and most balanced in 2 because non caster builds had to invest in adaptability in the same way caster builds had to invest in atunement.

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Most stupid thing ever created in the series, it's even worse than soul memory, it's no wonder why most people think this game is the worst game in the franchise. If you don't spent dozens of levels on ADP it's nearly impossible dodge grabs for example, I remember playing this game for the first time and getting totally outraged by how the troll kept hitting me and grabbing me even when I perfectly rolled out of his range of attack

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so I need to spend souls to unlock the ability to be able to roll essentially I know you still have frames but there basically nonexistent

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Alright this system might be a little bunk, but at least they added increased stamina use to consecutive rolls. Some people get by fine with 85 agility because they are good at the games. Others do not. At least I cant sit at 69.9% weight tier with no stat investments and still get the same iframes someone at 0 weight would have. If anything this stat is meant to separate the ones who actually know how to dodge and the ones who rely on iframes and spam dodging.
There are a lot of attacks that are difficult to dodge into at 85 agility, but hey fromsoft has been trying to make the hug-the-boss-butt strategy less viable.
This is definitely a crutch stat that people with perfect timing can ignore and have much higher damage numbers than others at their current SM

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This isnt even the most important stat just saying. People love to make a big fuss about i-frames when actually early game is more important that you are able to carry your preferred weapons then in my opinion getting VIG & END to 20 (the softcaps). Then ADP for the Agility. 92 or 96 should be fine.

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Is it wrong that I like this? I mean they forces people to level up and push away meta cesspool like Sl120.

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people really do act as if adp is mandatory, but hey i've never leveled it and i never go to tank builds and dodge most stuff just fine

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Level it up to 100 early game, then once your builds right about complete you can level it up to 110

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My personal preference for the agility stat: Raise it to 92 if you are confident. Otherwise go 100 for a good time. 92 is certainly doable, even for the likes of Raime. If there is anybody that *****s you over, it's Sir Alonne. Honestly, I hate that guy.

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My main issue with agility is the effect it has on SL1 runs. Obviously it adds more challenge, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it makes some attacks impossible to roll through and I would argue that that's bordering on unfair.

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Why is everyone complaining about this stat so hard? If you just focus down on it you can get plenty of iFrames on your roll by the time you leave Forest of the Fallen Giants. I'll admit it's kind of lame that I have to waste time investing into a stat I don't really care about, but it's for a very small portion if the game and it certainly isn't game ruining.

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At Fromsoftware: "So I have an idea for a real cool boss that gives a fast chase with really big and awesome attacks that incentivises the player to learn how to dodge dance like a god..."; "no no no, I'll have to stop you right there, don't forget about agility, we can't design a fair boss using the dodging. Now now, go back to thinking about glorified normal enemies or normal enemies gank fights that we can slap a boss health bar on it and call it a day."

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I'd complain about this stat causing more people to overlevel to a high SL where builds are less intuitive and more likely all similar (sl200 and up, I'd say), but the soul memory system already made level matching the jankiest, most unreliable in the series. Bit of a shame because this game has, imo, the best PvP build variety in the series

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Also imagine it being fromsofts fault that nobody wants to spec into ANYTHING other than pure damage stats. This stat raises 7 different survival abilities and poison bonus, along with increasing shield raise speed, estus drink speed and heal item usage. Top to bottom this is a survive-ability stat that youre all butthurt about having to spec into. Stand by the fact that poise, dodge, and speed are better when tied to a stat then to gear weight.

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Imagine thinking this is an unfair stat instead of realizing youre at fault for using every level up on 1/10 of the level up categories.

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Question: How does this work in SOTFS?, As it is 60 fps, the "Running at a higher framerate doesn't change the total invincibility duration" has to be an incorrect statement otherwise the iframes would be only be 50% effective than the vanilla version. They would have had to make it 2/60 to have the same effect.

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dont forget froms random gank algorith designed to add an additionlal disadvantage to the player by coding in a control randomizer so every nth trigger or button action does something other than what its supposed to.....for example instead of cast spell when you hit right bumper it strikes. or instead of roll dodge it steps backwards. or instead of drink estus it doesnt do anything all of which haas happened consistently in my game and no its not a wonky controller ita the games coding.

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*yawn* boring as*****. i want a game not a fkng calculator

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Blows my mind that there are people out there who actually think this number-crunching***** is better than the three clearly defined roll tiers that the first game had.

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So I read these comments and here’s what I noticed agility is preferred by those who in previous games had issues with dodging and to those people I recommend knuckling up with a shield. Here’s my argument ADP and agility breaks the game by 1. Being better than the same amount of vitality 2. Having a trash in game description that I had to visit this wiki page to read 3.Having a large amount of iframes lowers the skill requirements for dodging 4.Because of numerous hit box glitches in DS2 it can be hard to tell high agility from lag or ghost hit boxes 5.Damages the PVP by having high agility builds being hard to hit with magic spears, lightning, or melee. (Stop calling other people names because they like/ hate agility and you don’t. Finally saying git gud isn’t an argument.)

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In ds3 you have 12 i-frames when rolling, 11 i-frames if you fat roll, how many i-frames you gain if you fast roll? 13? 14? maybe 15? NO, you have only 12 i-frames. ADP is a good and balanced stat, stop being a crybaby and accept it

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I played through dark souls 2 as my first souls game and kept adaptability at base, I feel like a massive idiot wondering why my rolls seemed useless

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Wait, dodging has invincibility frames? And here I was just like... actually dodging out of the way with it. Like under any tall enemy's horizontal attacks that inevitably leave a space for a whole adult to roll under.

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Easily the best leveling system, unlike iframe souls 1 and 3 where you can dodge anything 2 seconds early or late (exaggeration for those who get salty) at the start, you have to earn that capacity, better balancing for more varied builds, I dare ds1 and 3 fan club do a 83 agility run in light armour (great fun especially when you switch to high agility and never fail dodge from intense training, its why I dodge so great of the other 2) as for a comment of hit box, they must have a pirated edition cause I never seem to get this issue, had it on ds1 but not 2 or 3 (except throwing knives)

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Hands down the best implementation of iFrames and rolling in any Souls game. Prevents players from having maximum invincibility frames with zero investment, so the balance between faster rolling and heavier armor is more fair, while still tipped in favor of rolling. People *****ing about it are just angry they can't spam roll to win like in DS3, or become circus perform- err, "ninjas" like in DS1. The effect on item consumption is negligible and once again tipped in favor of faster builds, which also makes sense considered one would take longer to drink an Estus in a full suit of armor. All this works great in conjunction with poise and armor, it's counterpart, which, big surprise, actually works in this game!

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I don't see the sweat behind this stat... I've gotten by on 86 Agility just by relying on timing my blocks and careful spacing to avoid damage, and I've got my magic resistance pretty high, and I don't even need a Greatshield or Heavy Armor to endure most things. Sure, it is HELL at first, but it's just like learning a different playstyle.

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Does carry weight have an effect on iframes in DS2? I know it increases roll distance, but tbh with how I play it isn't really necessary for me to roll further (when I play melee).

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they say dark souls 2 is the easiest of the 3 games. and there you have it, learn to do something properly that should be done by the game itself, but no, we have to add a stat that would affect your i-frames and you would as a begginer, had to perfectly time your rolls to not suck like a total loser.

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wait what is there invincibility frames on rolls in dark souls 2? because i don't *****ing have any even if i dodge perfectly

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My advice to anyone struggling with starting iframes: get out before the swing comes. After you land a hit or two, make some distance before the enemy's attack comes in. I know this isn't always doable, but playing cautious at the start, then going more agressive later on, is a totally viable (and recommended) strat. Not every encounter has to be balls to the wall combat, with trying to dodge through hits. If you go for a heavier build, then you can probably block it and tank the damage, rather than take the full force for a failed roll. What I personally did, was learn to parry. I wouldn't recommend the parry strat to a new player though, as it can be hard to get a grasp on.

TL;DR Just back off whenever you can, or block the hit.

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Basically a crutch for those who can't learn dodge timings.

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From soft should’ve changed your roll to a flip at high agility.

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1 agility =artificial difficulty
2 it is only there to weaken early game players
3 praise the sun

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I love this stat. The best part about it is that a toon with a high equip burden can CHOOSE to invest stats to gain i-frames on rolls and backsteps. In DaS1, there was no choice. You either have high equip/ low i-frames, or low equip/ high i-frames. This stat is one of the premiere stats in being able to truly tinker with a build and make it fit your exact playstyle. I personally never use a shield, and prefer dodging. But I am not putting away my UGS, no way, which needs some extra poise and armor to play well. Well, instead of suffering DaS1's roll, backstep and i-frame penalties, I now am able to play my guy, my way. In fact, I love that I could essentially Perma-equip my toon with even better i-frames than the DWGR, IF I WANT. This flexibility in build design is one of the reasons why I think Tanimura is the A-team when it came to designing a great game.

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the only thing I really hated in ds2 was this stat it is JUST there to kill people

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